Generic filters
Filter by Categories
All Condos
Ask Andrew
Hi-Rise (West) Inc.
New Condos by City
Halton Hills
Port Credit
Square One
Niagara Falls
Richmond Hill
The Blue Mountains
Baldwin Village
Bayview Village
Bedford Park
Briar Hill
Brockton Village
Canary District
Casa Loma
Church & Carlton
Church & Wellesley
Church St. Corridor
Clanton Park
Corso Italia
Danforth Village
Davisville Village
Distillery District
Don Mills
East Junction
East York
Eglinton East
Eglinton West
Entertainment District
Fashion District
Financial District
Flemingdon Park
Forest Hill
Garden District
High Park
Kensington Market
King East
King West
Liberty Village
Little Italy
Little Portugal
Long Branch
Moss Park
North York
Old Town
Regent Park
River District
St. Clair West
St. James Town
St. Lawrence
Tam O'Shanter-Sullivan
The Annex
The Junction
The Kingsway
The Queensway
Victoria Park Village
Wallace Emerson
Yonge & Bloor
Yonge and College
Yonge and Dundas
Yonge and Eglinton
Yonge and Lawrence
Yonge and Richmond
Yonge and Sheppard
Yonge and St. Clair
New Condos by Deposit
10% Before Occupancy
15% Before Occupany
5% Before Occupancy
New Condos by Developer
Acorn Developments
Adi Development Group
Allegra Homes
Alterra Developments
Altree Developments
Amexon Development
Andrin Homes
Angil Development
Aoyuan International
Aragon Properties Ltd
Armour Heights Developments
Artlife Developments
Ashcroft Homes
Aspen Ridge Homes
Balder Corporation
Ballymore Homes
Bazis Inc
Benvenuto Group
Biddington Homes
Blackdoor Development Company
Block Developments
Bloomfield Homes
Branthaven Homes
Briarwood Development Group
Brixen Developments
Brookfield Residential
Canderel Residential
Capital Developments
Carlyle Communities
Carriage Gate Homes
Carttera Private Equities
Castlebridge Development Group
Castleview Developments
Centrestone Urban Developments Inc
Centreville Homes
Chestnut Hill Developments
Choice Properties REIT
Choo Communities
Cityscape Development Corporation
Clifton Blake
Concert Properties
Concord Adex
Condoman Developments Inc
Conservatory Group
Constantine Enterprises Inc.
Consulate Development Group
Core Development Group
Cortel Group
Craft Development
Creek Village Inc.
Cresford Developments
Crown Communities
Crystal Homes
Cystal Glen Homes
DC&F Corp
Diamante Development
Diamond Kilmer Developments
Distrikt Developments
Doornekamp Construction Ltd
Dormer Homes
Downing Street Group
Dundee Kilmer
Eden Oak
ELAD Canada
EllisDon Capital
Emblem Developments
Empire Communities
Evans Planning Inc
Fernbrook Homes
Fieldgate Urban
Fifth Avenue Homes
First Avenue Properties
First Capital
Flato Developments
Forest Hill Homes
FRAM + Slokker
G Group Developments
Gary Silverberg
Gemterra Developments Corporation
Genesis Homes
Georgian International
Globizen Developments
Gordon Wells Ltd.
Great Gulf
Greatwise Developments
Greenfield Quality Builders
Greenland Group
Greenpark Group
Greybrook Realty
H&W Developments
Harhay Developments
Harlo Capital
Haven Developments
Homes by DeSantis
Hyde Park Homes
Icon Homes
IN8 Developments
Investissement SM Immobilier
JCF Capital
Kaleido Corporation
Kalovida Canada Inc
Kaneff Corporation
KBIJ Corporation
Kingdom Development
KingSett Capital
Kroonenberg Group
Lalu Canada
Lamb Developments
Lancaster Homes
Latch Developments
Laurier Homes
LCH Developments
Les Entreprises QMD
Liberty Development
Liberty Hamlet Inc
Lifestyle Custom Homes
Lifetime Developments
LJM Developments
Madison Group
Malibu Investments
Manorgate Homes
Marlin Spring Developments
Marydel Homes
Mattamy Homes
Medallion Capital Group
Mizrahi Developments
MOD Developments
Nascent Developments
New Horizon Development Group
NOCO Development Company
Norstar Group of Companies
North American Development Group
North Drive
North Edge Properties
Northam Realty Advisors
Nova Ridge Development Partners
Old Stonehenge
ONE Properties
One Urban
Options Development
Oxford Properties
Parallax Development Corporation
Patry Inc Developments
Pemberton Group
Phelps Homes
Pinnacle International
Platinum Vista
Podium Developments
Primont Homes
Queensgate Homes
RAJACan Developments Inc.
ReBuilt Construction
Reids Heritage Homes
Rise Developments
Riverking Developments
Rosehaven Homes
Rosewater Developments
Rowntree Enterprises
Royalpark Homes
Royalton Homes
Saxon Developments
Scholar Properties Ltd
Sequoia Grove Homes
Seven Numbers Development
Sherwood Homes
Shiplake Properties Limited
Sierra Building Group
SilverCreek Communities
Solmar Development Group
Solotex Corporation
St. Regis Homes
St. Thomas Developments
State Building Group
Sundance Homes
Sunny Communities
Tercot Communities
The Remington Group
The Rockport Group
The Rose Corporation
The Sher Corporation
Tiffany Park Homes
Time Group Corp.
Treasure Hill
Tribute Communities
Tricon Developments
Triumphant Group
Trolleybus Urban Development Inc
Trulife Developments
United Lands
Urbane Communities
VanMar Developments
Vermilion Developments
Vintage Park Homes
Wabash Heights Developments Inc
Westbank Corp
Westbank Corp. and Allied Properties
Zancor Homes
New Condos by Occupancy Year
True Condos Approved
Filter by content type
Taxonomy terms

How to Invest and Enjoy the Muskoka Lifestyle with Ryan Rabinovich of Freed Developments

In this exclusive interview, Ryan Rabinovich, VP of Freed Developments returns to the show to introduce Freed’s boutique condo building on his award winning resort and golf course in Muskoka. Learn about this very unique investment opportunity that you can actually enjoy yourself too – and for much less than the cost of a typical Muskoka property.


1:05 What is Muskoka Bay?
2:48 What is special about this area?
6:38 About the Muskoka Bay Resort.
9:48 Tell us about the units, building and why you decided to go in this direction?
13:59 Where exactly the building is located and price points.
18:21 The Rental Aspect of the resort.
24:31 Two types of ways that we rent out units.
27:57 How much demand is there in the winter?
29:11 Stats for Economic Best Case Scenario.
34:56 As an Investor, how do I know if my unit is going to get rented out?
37:03 What separates this one from everything else that might be out there.

Click Here for Episode Transcript

Andrew la Fleur: Is it possible to buy a condo in Cottage Country that’s also a great investment opportunity? Find out on today’s episode.

Announcer: Welcome to the True Condo’s Podcast with Andrew La Fleur, the place to get the truth on the Toronto condo market and condo investing in Toronto.

Andrew la Fleur: Alright, it’s my pleasure to welcome back to the show, returning guest Ryan Rabinovich, Ryan is the vice president of sales for Free Developments and we’re happy to have him back on the show, Ryan, welcome back.

Ryan Rabinovich: Thanks Andrew, it’s good to be back.

Andrew la Fleur: Great. And obviously, we’ve had you on the show in the past, we’ve done a lot of work with Free Developments over the years and obviously in Toronto and now we’ve got something new and exciting to talk about today. I know a lot of people are really anticipating this one and I’ve had a lot of people emailing me and texting me and calling me about this project and it is … Well, you know what? I’ll let you tell us, tell everybody what it is that we’re talking about today.

Ryan Rabinovich: Thanks Andrew, so what we’re talking about and what we’re really excited to present to the market is our Muskoka Bay Resort, the residences. And what the residences are is a 62 units building with each building set at the heart of Muskoka Bay Resort, which is something that we’ve been working on for over ten years, creating just a beautiful resort community in Gravenhurst Muskoka, pretty much a minute away from the lake, surrounded by 850 acres of lush green forest and it just so happens to be sitting on one of the top ranked golf courses in Canada, which is about 170 acres that we’ve developed just over a decade ago. We’re excited to bring this and share it with your listeners and, of course, the real estate community because we feel that this is a really special offering that is missing and filling a void in the market place, especially for those lifestyle buyers that want to enjoy Muskoka while earning income at the same time. I’m sure you’d want to get into those details a bit later on.

Andrew la Fleur: Yeah, that’s great. Residents of Muskoka Bay. 62 units right inside the resort, existing Muskoka Bay Resort, which, as you said, is about 10 years old now and one of the top golf courses in Canada in the heart of Muskoka. I know you spent a lot of time at the resort and in the Muskokas yourself, why don’t you tell us about Muskoka and what is special about this area. Most people will be familiar with Muskoka, but not everyone. So, for the person who’s sort of new to Muskoka, what do we need to know about this area in general.

Ryan Rabinovich: Muskoka is consistently one of the best places to visit in Canada. It’s repeatedly named as one of Canada’s top vacation spots and it’s a really special place. First of all, it’s only about an hour and a half north of Toronto and it’s quaint and a charming region that’s affectively known as Canada’s Cottage Country and, of course, it’s received some tremendous recognition over the last few decades as one of Canada’s top vacation spots. If you look at some of its accolades, official accolades, National Geographic rates Muskoka as their number one best summer trip in the world several years back. They’ve also ranked it as one of their top 20 best trips in the world several years back, as well. Reader’s Digest ranked it as one of the top 10 Canadian road trips to take. Farmer’s Magazine ranked it as Canada’s best family vacation destination. The accolades go on and on.

When you speak to people who frequent Muskoka or people who live in Muskoka, people who vacation in Muskoka or own cottages there, they’ll all really vouch for the beauty and the nature of Muskoka and it’s just something that we repeatedly hear is it plays host to memorable family vacations in one of its many resorts or cottages or some hotels or motels. Families just flock to Muskoka to be next to picturesque lake sides and waterfalls and forests. Summer and Winter in Muskoka are just like no other. Muskoka is a really special place for Canadians but the secret is getting out there and you’re starting to see a lot of buyers coming in from south of the border. A lot of buyers coming in from overseas trying to grab their own piece of paradise up in the region. The area is going through tremendous growth and we’re excited to be a part of it and we’ve been a part of it for over a decade while developing resort. We are looking at this as a longterm proposition and we just want to create something special for our buyers and the travelers that come into our resort.

Andrew la Fleur: Yeah. Absolutely, as you mentioned, there’s so many official and unofficial accolades for Muskoka. If you haven’t been, definitely get up there this summer before the summer’s out and especially spend some time in the area. So many great spots and lakes and forests and nature and scenery to see. Golf courses, of course. The biggest issue with Muskoka, which you kind of alluded to is just the popularity and the costs. It’s become extremely expensive to own property in Muskoka. It’s becoming more and more a playground for the rich. We’ll get into that and how this opportunity sort of addresses that as well in this chat.

But why don’t you tell us a little bit, as well, about Muskoka Bay Resort, specifically, the history there. It’s been about 10 years now. How did that get started and where is the development of the resort at today?

Ryan Rabinovich: Great question. Some of the history there, the resort has been up and operating for just over 10 years. It started as Peter’s brainchild, real passion project. The assembly, the land assembly there, came together for him and he just envisioned, as he does with properties in the city, something really special. Something that makes a real impact on the community. The golf course was something that he always wanted to create and in creating it, he really wanted to make it special. He retained Doug Carrick, who’s a world renown golf course architect to build and create the golf course on Freed’s behalf. Doug has done an incredible job and the golf course at [inaudible 00:07:51] just continuously reaps one award after another, after another, after another and is continuously recognized as one of the best courses in Canada and definitely one of the, if not the best courses in the region.

Around that, we always, you know, being real estate developers, we wanted to create a unique community right around the golf course but doesn’t solely rely on golf course for lifestyle but is a part of something greater. Again, nestled in 850 acres of forest, about a one minute drive away from Lake Muskoka and the Muskoka Wharf, we started building, slowly and surely, at our own pace, one home after another, after another. One villa after another and after another and before we knew, now, several years later, we’re nearly about 100 homes in and the community is growing every year. That’s when we decided that it’s time to introduce the next phase of this community, the first phase of multi-unit residential offerings and we’ve been working on it for nearly three years now and, finally, we’re at a point where we’re bringing something forward that we’re really happy with and we think people would really respond positively to and we just can’t wait to share it with the marketplace later this summer.

Andrew la Fleur: Yeah, so talk about the building itself, the 62 units. Because as you say, you’ve been developing homes, you’ve been developing villas, different types of property there, but you’ve never had something like this, this style of building in this type of residence. Why did you decide to build? Tell us about the units in the building, what they’re like and why you decided to go in this direction as opposed to continuing to do the villas and the town homes and the homes that you’ve already been building.

Ryan Rabinovich: Our home community, our villas, that’s been really popular. That’s concurrently to the condo, that still continues to happen and evolve. We are still selling homes. Homes, actually, are becoming more and more popular. We have homes up there that are stunning, stunning Muskoka style homes starting from about $550,000. Obviously, that’s a really, really special offering and that’s continuing to grow.

We’ve decided to create a condominium building for a variety of reasons. Number one, we wanted to create something at a slightly lower price point for the entry level buyer that wants a piece of Muskoka but can’t get afford to get into homes. You know, water front homes, waterfront properties in Muskoka, right now, are at virtually an all time high. Anything you look at that’s one the water is just trading at millions of dollars in land value only.

Being a part of Muskoka is not just being on the water. Muskoka is greater than that. The offerings are more wider than that and there’s a variety of activities outside of the obvious water activities that make people come back again and again to enjoy Muskoka and we could talk about some of those activities later but that was one thing that we wanted to create is a unique offering at a slightly lower price point.

The second thing is that we, as a resort, we get plenty of inquiries, you know, dozens and dozens of inquiries every year about corporate programs or private events at the resort and the one thing that’s kind of keeping us from being able to accommodate these large, large groups that want to book, you know, large golf tournaments or large professional training for their employees, weddings, corporate holiday events, one of our biggest challenges is we just don’t have enough accommodations. What we end up doing, we end up actually referring many of those businesses to the Marriott that’s down the street. We thought, you know, why don’t we create, in addition to this value offering for the buyers, why don’t we create a hybrid vehicle for them to also generate income when they don’t use the property because many of these families will come up for several weeks a year, or several months a year and enjoy having their property in Muskoka but those times where they don’t use their homes for personal use, they can now enter the unit into a rental pool that’s professionally managed by Muskoka Bay Resort staff 365 days a year, takes care of everything relating to accommodations from A to Z. Check-in, check-out, inspecting the property after check-out, maid services, etc.

Then we can, all of a sudden, we can accommodate all of these groups that always want to be a part of Muskoka Bay but we just can’t accommodate them because of the lack of sizeable accommodations. This resolves a few things as well as providing the buyer a really unique ability to become a part of Muskoka and have the family enjoy all of Muskoka’s amenities.

Andrew la Fleur: Talk about the building a little bit more, itself. What sort of suites … I know the floor plans are not released quite yet at the time of recording of this but what can you tell us about the floor plans, the sizes of the units, the amenities of the building. Where exactly the building is located on the resort property? And, obviously, price points.

Ryan Rabinovich: The Muskoka Bay, the residences were designed to blend and disappear into the surrounding of the Canadian shield in the Muskoka forest so the building kind of evokes a contemporary Canadian style, mixing wood sidings with glass. Really a Canadian cottage standard, so to speak, but with a modern twist.

The condo would have two sides to it. There’d be the driveway side and the golf side. The way the building is designed is that every single unit in the building overlooks the 18th fairway and overlooks the golf course. That happens to also be south so every unit is looking south and enjoying those beautiful, stunning views.

When you’re approaching the driveway side of the building, you can see alternating glass, mirror and frosted glazing panels and it creates a beautiful subtle pattern and the building almost looks like it fits right into the forest because of all the reflections of the tree and its natural surroundings.

The unit mixture is comprised of anything from a small studio that’s just under 400 square feet to larger units, largest unit being 2400 square feet. Most of the product is priced and is sized between 400 to 800 square feet and, of course, larger units are available. We have everything from studios to three bedroom units.

The club, the resort has a stunning 17,000 square foot clubhouse located on a hundred foot cliff with a beautiful infinity pool. The building, itself, doesn’t have any amenities built into the building because everything that you’ll need is at the clubhouse. So we have stunning pools, we have a kid’s splash pool and we have our full infinity pool overlooking the first fairway and the forest. We have spa service available, fitness facilities available, we have a couple restaurants on our site as well. Unlike, a condominium building in the city where everything has to be built into the building itself, here the building is part of a much greater resort community so as such, everything is offered immediately around the building itself.

Andrew la Fleur: Yeah, it’s fantastic. I mean, again, talking about … If anybody’s listening and you’re remotely interested at all, you definitely need to checkout the visuals on this thing. I’ve done a video myself, I know that free developments is doing a video, too. There’s great renderings available or, even better yet, just hop in the car, couple hours, drive up there yourself and checkout the property yourself. It’s absolutely a spectacular, spectacular property. As Ryan said, the clubhouse, on the cliff, infinity pool, I mean, it’s just very dramatic and beautiful and just an amazing setting to be in. The condo building itself, I’ve obviously been there and the condo building itself is just located just down the hill a very short walk, like a one/two minute walk from the clubhouse itself with the pool and the restaurant and the gym and all the amenities there.

Ryan Rabinovich: Right.

Andrew la Fleur: Okay, so I’m an investor, I buy a unit in the project. I’m sort of thinking, I’m going to use it a little bit for myself, maybe I want to snowmobiling trip here and there in the winter and I want to do a golf week or two in the summer. But then, the rest of the year I may not be planning to use it too much and I’m interested in what you were talking about in terms of the putting it in as part of the rental portion of the resort. How does that work, exactly. Can you tell us a little bit more details on how that would play out and what kind of an investment is this, actually, going to look like as an investor.

Ryan Rabinovich: Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s kind of the x-factor here in our minds. Whenever you’re not up there using the unit yourself or sending family up there or friends or business colleagues, you can enter your unit into our rental pool. As I mentioned previously, we have resort staff dedicated to our accommodations program and essentially the opportunity for you as an owner, would be to generate income when you’re not using your unit by enrolling into our program. The program managers would rent your unit on a nightly/weekly/monthly or annual basis, depending on how much personal use you’d like. That team is dedicated year round to manage your property when you’re not using it. The full service that we’re offering there would ensure the highest quality of tenants and other things that would be included would be the booking management, check-in and check-out process, post check-out inspections to make sure your unit is in a good state and not damaged after anyone stayed there. Repair and service coordination, maid service coordination, we look after it all from A to Z so it becomes a really hands off investment for you when you’re not using it.

Of course, we’d want the owners to take as much advantage of owning this as they can because the Muskoka tagline for the region is Once Discovered, Never Forgotten. That really is how Muskoka is. When you go up there and you spend some time there on your own or with family or significant other, you’d want to come back again and again and we encourage that. We want you to become a real part of our community. But, naturally, some of our buyers who live in the city or who live in Muskoka part-time and then in the city or abroad for a part of the year, you enroll the unit into our rental program and we take care of the rental for you. There’s a fee that’s being charged for us to manage it, but essentially, we’re creating passive income for you when you’re not using it, be it one day a year or 365 days a year. Really, you’d just be collecting the payments from us on a monthly or on a quarterly basis, depending on how often and how many days it’s been in the pool over the year.

The investment itself would be pretty enticing because you can own a unit in Muskoka in one of the most sought after resorts in the region for only a few thousand dollars a year. That is different from owning a piece of real estate in the city, for instance. The prices in the city have gone up significantly over the last year and a half or so. We’ve seen continued growth in pricing and there’s talks about the pricing slowing down but in the condos you really don’t see it, especially in the downtime core. Pre-construction projects are now selling at prices we’ve never seen before, $1,000 per square foot on the higher end, whereas before you could maybe name one that has been selling at those prices. Now you can name six or seven.

That kind of changes the rental yields. All of a sudden units that used to be able to carry themselves, no longer can because the prices and the rental prices haven’t caught quite grown in the same manner. Obviously, prices have gone up at significantly higher rates than rental rates.

In Muskoka here, we have a great rental market because we charge a premium because the unit being on a resort as part of something greater. A rental in Muskoka is not very expensive if it’s not on the water but because you’re part of the resort, all of a sudden you’re getting into our entry level per night rate right now in the peak season is about $399 and that’s for a one bedroom unit. You’re getting into premium rents and you’re getting into premium pricing and so you find yourself in the position where all of a sudden, depending on personal use, the unit can pay for itself, maybe generate a few thousand dollars a year or, if you get a lot of personal use out of it, maybe you’re out of pocket a few thousand dollars a year but you own a piece of real estate in Muskoka where people pay thousands of dollars just to visit us for a few night family vacation. You’re a part of that community already for a very small fee.

Andrew la Fleur: Right, yeah. That was one of the questions I wanted to ask. You’re not reinventing the wheel to speak. You are renting out your current residences and lofts and home that are there to groups and people coming in to stay so that’s what I wanted to ask you. What is, sort of, the entry level price points. You mentioned $399 for a one bedroom. That’s your, sort of, entry level price point for a summer season. What would that be, roughly, in the off-season, in the winter. What would that be, roughly.

Ryan Rabinovich: Good question. The way it works, there’s two types of ways that we rent out units. We either rent them out as part of a stay and play package, which is, we’re layering golf right into their accommodations package to make it easier for them, especially for the golfers who come up to the course, make it easier for them to come up and bundle a package in a more economical manner for them.

Or we do it the traditional way where they just pay per night. In the peak season, our nightly rate to start, without the golf are anywhere between $399 and $425 per night. If you want to layer golf onto it, you’re looking at about $540 per person if there’s one or $360 per person if there’s two people, which effectively makes the package valued at $720. The owners get, of course, a big portion of that, because they provide the accommodations.

In the off season, the nightly rate for a one bedroom unit, currently, would be $299 and, of course, rates will fluctuate slightly depending on availability and we obviously want to make sure that our owners are at capacity if they want to be at capacity. We want to make sure that they’re there so that they can maximize their revenue levels. In the off season our rates are $299 for a one bedroom and if the golf course is still open and you want to layer golf onto that, the golf would either be $290 per person for two people or $460 per person for one person. You can see that the rates are pretty healthy. Two bedrooms kind of go up significantly from that but with the offering of the condos, we’d look for entry level, entry price points for peak season at slightly lower rates to encourage people to come to the club and benefit from being part of the resort and taking advantage of everything that the area has to offer. We’d look for rates starting at, if the building was ready today, we’d look at peak rates being anywhere between $299 and $349 per night for your kind of typical one bedroom units.

Andrew la Fleur: Right. Wow, $299 for a one bedroom unit a night. So you can start to get an idea of what those numbers could look like. Now, let’s go through this exercise if you don’t mind, let’s talk about some, sort of, common objections or questions that a perspective investor, if I’m looking at this, I’m thinking about investing, sounds enticing, I like Muskoka, I like the Muskoka Bay Resort. The price point to get into owning property in Muskoka is very attractive. I like the idea that when I’m not using it, I can rent it out, I can earn some rental income. Maybe even it pays entirely for itself, as you said or maybe even a little bit extra depending on how much I use it, you know, and how many nights it’s rented out. But still have some questions.

I think the common questions that people are thinking about, one of them would be, winter time, obviously. What happens in the winter? How much demand is there in the winter? Does anyone want to stay at the resort in the winter? Will anyone want to stay in the resort in the winter or is it going to just sit empty all winter? What are your thoughts on that?

Ryan Rabinovich: Naturally, the time to be, traditionally, for people who are not familiar with Muskoka, the time to be in Muskoka would be kind of between April and the end of October. That’s what people love. The autumn in Muskoka, the fall, is absolutely stunning and is kind of a big secret but something that a lot of people don’t know is how incredible the winter time is in Muskoka and if you speak to any locals, they’ll say winter is actually their favorite time of year because it’s kind of an undiscovered gem. People don’t understand how much there is to do in Muskoka over the winter months.

But of course travel takes a bit of a step back during that season. What we’ve created and, of course, Andrew will share with you and you can share with your listeners and your followers is the economic best case scenario but when we created it, we went from, we were pretty conservative. WE went from expecting occupancy rates of 70% or 80% in the peak season, which is a conservative estimate to going down to 10 or 20% occupancy during the winter months. That is, in my opinion, an ultra conservative estimate because there’s still quite a bit of activity in the Muskoka region in the winter. There’s plenty of hockey tournaments, a lot of companies like to have their professional trainings done in Muskoka over the winter because there’s still so much to offer in terms of things to do but they’re benefiting from better values for their own dollar, quote/unquote, because it is peak season.

I think that even though in our best case scenario, the way we underwrote it for our perspective investors, we underwrote it at 10-20% occupancy I think that investors can see a significant upside on that and get to a point where occupancy in the winter ends up being the lion’s share of their overall annual revenue. The area is progressing and this business model is growing and it will prove itself over time and we feel that there is still a lot of upside [inaudible 00:30:41] annual income and annual revenues for buyers, specifically for the winter, which presents a lot of opportunity to grow.

Andrew la Fleur: Interesting. That’s a key point to make so when you’re talking about your, again, you said the numbers will be released, you’ll share the investor ROI breakdown based on having it in the rental pool. Those numbers will be out there but the numbers where you’re talking about the property breaking even for a year or maybe just costing you a couple thousand dollars for the year, you’re basing it not on it being rented out for 50 weeks a year. You’re being quite conservative, is what you’re saying, and you’re basing those kind of results on it being rented out for roughly 70% for the peak season and a very conservative number of, sort of, 10-20% in the winter. Even with those number, you’re still creating a healthy investment where you’re breaking even plus or minus a few thousand dollars. Is that right?

Ryan Rabinovich: Yep. Without going into too much details because when you’re talking about numbers and revenues and returns, you want to have something visual. It’s very tough to always get it when you’re talking about it but we’ve divided the year into three main periods. The first period is what we refer to as the peak season. A few weeks before the peak and a few weeks after the peak is what we call the shoulder season where, you know, the golf course is still open but it’s getting a little bit colder outside. And then you have the winter season. So the winter season currently accounts for about 180/190 days out of the year and in our … In the way we underwrote it, we assume that occupancies would be at about 20%. Based on that, we feel that if your unit was in the pool for 365 days in a year, you’d actually be in a pretty good place [inaudible 00:32:56]. Which is rare, now, especially with, you don’t really find a lot of opportunities like that in the city anymore. We know because, obviously, we’re very active and involved in development in Toronto and we will continue to be with nearly 10,000 unites in our pipeline. Realistically, the rental market hasn’t quite caught up to prices just yet. Maybe it will over the next few years.

When you take out for personal use and you want to spend a few weeks up there in the summer or a few weeks up there in the winter, obviously, that has an affect on your bottom line but it’s not very significant if it’s only a few weeks here or there. Again, we hope that you take as much advantage of your unit as possible and we feel that people will more and more as they discover Muskoka more and more but the financial model here makes sense and if you’re breaking even with a unit in Muskoka and you spent a few weeks up there, in my opinion, is that worth it and your getting your mortgage paid down? I think so. If it’s costing you a few thousand dollars a year but you’ve had some great times up there with family and friends and colleagues is it worth it? I think so. If you’re generating a few thousand dollars a year, is it worth it? Absolutely. It’s a win win here. We can’t wait to share the model with you and show you how it all works so that you can really see how simple and easy we’ve made it to own a piece of real estate in Muskoka. Of course, unlike other resorts, this is 100% traditional real estate ownership. It’s not a timeshare. It’s not anything like that. It’s your home is Muskoka.

Andrew la Fleur: That’s great. Another common question is if everyone … Sounds great but if everyone is an investor or if most people are investors and there’s 60 units, how do I know if my unit is going to get rented out or if I’m putting it in the pool and there’s another 40 or 50 units in the pool that same week that it’s in the rental pool, how do I know if my unit is getting rented out versus somebody else’s unit? How do I know that I’m going to get income versus somebody else gets the income?

Ryan Rabinovich: That’s a great question. So to make … First of all, transparency is key when you’re operating this kind of pool. What we have is an online calendar that we’ll set up so you can see exactly how many days a week, a month, a year you’re unit is rented for and what days those are and we’re allotting, we’re going to allot guests based on, call it a simplified, call it a point system. Essentially, you get an even spread of the guest volume that stays at the property is spread evenly amongst all of the owners, proportionate to the amount of days that their unit is available in the rental pool. Naturally, if my unit is in that pool 300 days a year, and your unit is in the pool 100 days a year, you know, it’s only fair for me to have three times the bookings that you do because my unit is available in the pool three times more than yours.

There would not be a situation created where I’m getting six times the bookings that you would because that is just not proportionately even. We’re going to create a point system where everybody has an even number of stakes based on the proportional availability of their unit in the pool.

Andrew la Fleur: Great. Okay, you’re evening out the playing field like that. That makes a lot of sense and should give the investor a lot of comfort on that. Another question is there are other condo investment resort type opportunities in Cottage Country in Ontario. What separates this one from everything else that might be out there.

Ryan Rabinovich: I don’t necessarily like to focus on what other competitors in the region are offering, but the bottom line here is that Muskoka is a very, very big place. I think that there’s room for a lot of different players to excel in their own respective field and some of them would offer you a real estate offering in the shape of time shares. Some of them would offer you a little bit less flexibility in terms of the amount of days that the unit has to be in the rental pool, a minimum number of days to rent. We don’t do that. We want you to have all the flexibility to make sure that you take as much use or as little use of this unit as possible based on your own personal needs.

So I think there’s room for all of the different resorts to do well here and every resort is special and there is a lot of beautiful places to see and visit in Muskoka but, like I mentioned, I think Muskoka Bay Resort is very special. It’s in the first town as you drive up to Muskoka so it’s a bit closer to the city. You’re not driving for two and a half or three hours. You’re driving for, depending on where you in the GTA, if you’re in [inaudible 00:38:40], you can be up in the resort within 60 minutes. If you’re in Toronto, you could be up there in about 90 minutes. That’s definitely an advantage, the trek is not as long. But again, I think there’s room for all of us to excel in this market and everyone does something special and we’re just excited to be a part of it all and give an opportunity to people to really own a piece of Muskoka in such a great resort that we’ve built over a decade and we’re so proud of.

Andrew la Fleur: That’s great, Ryan. We’ve had a great conversation here today. Looking forward to getting all the details, of course, on this opportunity very, very soon. Is there anything that I didn’t ask you about Muskoka Bay, the residences at Muskoka Bay but that you wished I did.

Ryan Rabinovich: That’s a good question.

Andrew la Fleur: (laughs)

Ryan Rabinovich: That’s a really good question. There’s a few things that we’re proud of when we built this resort and when we’re now introducing it to a fresh pool of buyers. The one thing that people always, kind of, link up, link our resort with is our golf course. Naturally, the golf course is, in my opinion, world class. We were just rated one of the top ten courses in Canada by Golf Digest. We were rated top 20 courses in Canada by Score Golf. We were rated on of Canada’s Top 13 Golf Courses by Reader’s Digest. rated us as one of Canada’s best courses you can play. So there’s a lot of accolades so, naturally, when you’re sitting on the golf course that has, that is considered to be world class, a lot of people think of the resort as a kind of one-dimensional place. They think of it as, if I love golf, I should go to Muskoka Bay but, really, we’re here to educate people that, number one, the resort itself has many different offerings beyond the golf and, the region itself, has many different amenities beyond this incredible golf course. We’re encouraging and urging people to explore everything that our resort has to offer, beyond the world glass golf. At the same time, explore everything that Muskoka has to offer because when you become a part of our community, you become a part of Muskoka and that’s something very, very special.

Andrew la Fleur: Awesome. Great. Thanks so much, Ryan. Appreciate your time today. And looking forward to getting more info about the project.

Ryan Rabinovich: No problem, Andrew. Thanks for having me on and for supporting us here and we can’t wait to share everything with you.

Andrew la Fleur: Great. Bye for now.

Announcer: Thanks for listening to the True Condos Podcast. Remember, your positive reviews make a big difference to the show. To learn more about condo investing, become a True Condos subscriber by visiting