How to Analyze The Condo Market Like A Pro with Ben Myers

Interview Highlights

0:50 iTunes Podcast Reviews of the Week

3:20 Who is Ben Myers?

4:31 How Ben Myers Got Started in the Condo Industry (With Some Blue Jays Insights)

7:55 Ben Meyers at Fortress Real Developments

8:43 The Market Manuscript

9:48 What Are The Big Picture Condo Market Trends Across Canada?

12:20 Which Market Will Have the Most Growth Over the Next 5 Years?

13:38 Is There A Condo Bubble in Toronto?

15:42 Why Won’t the Condo Bubble Theory Go Away?

18:55 What Are the Warning Sides of A Condo Bubble?

22:18 What Fortress Project is Ben Myers Most Excited About?

26:38 The One Question No One Has Asked Ben Meyers But He Wish People Did

31:30 Where to Find Ben Myers

Links

Ben Myers on Twitter

Fortress Real Developments

Market Manuscript

Ben’s Blog Posts

Sky City Winnipeg

Toronto Blue Jays

Read the Ben Myers Interview Transcript

Andrew la Fleur:
Hello and welcome back to the True Condos podcast. I’m your host Andrew la Fleur and you might know me from TrueCondos.com or maybe you’ve read some of my articles in New Condo Guide magazine or maybe you’ve never heard of me at all and that’s okay. The point is that if you’re interested in learning more about the Toronto condo market and investing in condos, then you’ve come to the right place. The True Condos podcast is a chance to hear from experts and industry insiders about what’s really going on in the condo market. We also find out from these insiders where they’re putting their own money when it comes to condo investing.

This week I’m very happy to report that the podcast was actually featured on iTunes as new and noteworthy. Those was a pretty big milestone to hit so early in the shows existence, so thank you very much for everyone for listening to show, supporting the show and of course for giving some great reviews and ratings of the show. Speaking of reviews we have a few more that came in this week.

Erica Cristii says, “Great first episode. Love the website and now I’ve got something to listen to on my way to work. With such a hot condo market in Toronto, I’m surprised nobody else has thought of releasing a podcast focused in investing in Toronto condos specifically. Can’t wait for more.” Thank you very much Erica. I agree. I’m a little bit surprised that this podcast is a new concept on iTunes so I’m happy to be bringing it to you.

Adam Bensimon says, “Subscribed to True Condos,” I guess he means my website, “About a month ago and do not regret it all. I’m somewhat new to the real estate industry but very interested in the condo market/investing and these podcasts are very informative if you’re looking for some great investment opportunities. Really enjoyed the last podcast with Matthew Slutsky, the co-founder of BuzzBuzz Homes, as he shared his own personal condo investments, his views if there’s a condo bubble, et cetera. Keep up the good work and thank you Andrew.” Thank you very much Adam for that great review.

Finally, Angela says, “It’s important to have current and relevant information when looking to buy a condo whether it’s for personal use or investment. Andrew’s podcasts touch on some recent trends and issues that you need to know to confidently make a better informed decisions. Andrew la Fleur is a high caliber realtor and it shows.” Wow. That’s very kinds words from you Angela. I appreciate that. Thank you very much everyone for the reviews this week. If you, the listener, would like to leave a review for me, simply go to iTunes on your computer and you can look for the True Condos podcast there and leave me a review on iTunes. It’s greatly appreciated.

Now let’s get to today’s episode. This week on the show we have Ben Myers. Ben is the senior VP of market research and analytics for Fortress Real Developments. Ben has been researching and studying the housing markets for over a decade now. Most recently before he was at Fortress he was the editor and executive vice-president of Urbanation, which is the condo apartment market research company that most people have probably heard of, Urbanation. When he was there he was widely viewed as the voice of the condominium market in Toronto. You would see him quoted in media articles just about every week. Ben is a real influence here in the condo industry and he’s a sought after speaker on the condo market.

He has a refreshing and straightforward take on the condo market, which is something I really appreciate about him. As I said, he’s often quoted in the Globe and Mail, Toronto Star and many other national publications. For all the show notes on this episode you can head on over to truecondos.com/ben. Check it out, here’s my interview with Ben Myers of Fortress Real Developments.

Thanks for joining us today Ben. Would you mind just telling us a little bit about your background? How did you get started in the condo industry and how did you come to the position that you are today?

Ben Myers:
Perfect. I started out working in the real estate research in Dallas, Texas. I graduated in a university there, had no idea what I wanted to do so I just sent out some resumes and ended up …

Andrew la Fleur:
How did you end up in Texas? You’re Canadian.

Ben Myers:
I am, yes. I got a baseball scholarship so I was playing baseball down there and ended up working for the …

Andrew la Fleur:
What position?

Ben Myers:
I was a pitcher. I was a pitcher.

Andrew la Fleur:
I know you’re a huge Jays fan. Everybody who follows your tweeter feed knows that you’re a huge Jays fan. Before we get into the condo stuff, what do you think of the Jays season so far? What are your thoughts?

Ben Myers:

It’s obviously been a little disappointing when they had some holes that they needed to fill in the off-season. They had started pitcher in the second basement and they didn’t make those acquisitions and the team is obviously struggling in those two positions. Tough division.

Andrew la Fleur:

Crystal ball, where do you see the Jays this year? What do you think is most likely to happen?

Ben Myers:

I’d say 85 to 87 wins. Close to 10 games over 500 but still that will not be good enough to make them to the playoffs.

Andrew la Fleur:

How do you feel about that as a fan?

Ben Myers:

As a fan, it’s disappointing.

Andrew la Fleur:

Are you thinking of switching your allegiance to TFC and Raptors?

Ben Myers:

No, definitely not. I’m a Raptors and [inaudible 00:05:59] fan obviously, being a Torontonian. Obviously not a TFC fan, not a soccer fan whatsoever.

Andrew la Fleur:

That’s also been well-documented in your Twitter feed. Getting back to your story, so you went to University of Texas and then what happened after that?

Ben Myers:

I worked for a company called the Meyers Group that track the housing market in the Dallas Forth Worth area. I covered Tarrant County. That company had some financial problems so I moved back to Canada. I was working for a company in Toronto that track low-rise housing market. Eventually started working for a company called Clayton Research that is now part of the Altus Group, one of the largest companies in North America that does research on the housing market and market studies and cost consulting and tax appraisals and everything you can imagine that is in the real estate space. Moved on to working for Urbanation which tracks the high-rise condo market in the Toronto CMA. I worked there for 6 years, ran the company for 4 years. Got to talk with a lot of the people in the industry, not only from all the developers. Got to talk to the construction lenders, got to talk to the mortgage insurers, got to talk to the suppliers, the brokers on site, the big time brokers like Baker and Melbourne. Just constantly talking about what’s happening in the market, movements in the market and really getting an understanding of what was happening.

Andrew la Fleur: 

After Urbanation I guess you really made a name for yourself in the industry and you were featured in the media a lot as sort of a bit of spokesman for the condo industry in a sense. One of the top experts you got the reputation for. Now you’ve recently, well not so recently, but now you’re with Fortress.

Ben Myers:

Yeah. About a year ago I moved over to Fortress Real Development. What they do is essentially partner with the developers, bring the capital to the partnership with established developers all across Canada. They needed my expertise in evaluating projects. I was already doing consulting for them on a number of sites, recommending pricing, recommending amenities, recommending unit sizes, unit mix. All those fun things that have to do with a condo project and they wanted that expertise in-house so that I can talk to their investors about why we like this specific market on a macro level and why we like this specific project on a micro level. Prospect credibility to additional credibility to the firm and to the deals that they were picking and in addition to the transfer of Frank Margani we have a really solid executive team.

Andrew la Fleur:

That’s great. Recently you’ve released something called the Market Manuscript. For anybody who’s listening, how can they find it? How can they download a copy of that? I do recommend anybody who’s a condo investor or anybody who’s thinking about getting into condo investing in Canada, it’s a great document to definitely want to download this document and take a look at what Ben’s put together. Where can somebody find that?

Ben Myers:

It’s at fortressrealdevelopments.com. Just go to the new section. We have a number of blog posts and articles on there and you can download the Market Manuscript. It covers some of the high level details of some of the major markets that we’re in, Calgary, Toronto, Ottawa, Winnipeg and probably go into a little more detail into the Toronto market because that’s where most of our projects are and that’s where it seems like the most misinformation is being put out there and the media and talked about from bloggers and all kinds of people out there. I want to make sure we’re providing information in the long-term context of it and providing another side of the story of what’s happening.

Andrew la Fleur:

Reading that document, like you said, it covers the different condo markets across Canada, what are the big picture trends that you’re seeing? What’s the story right now? I know there’s really no such thing as the condo market in Canada, but if you’re looking on a national scale coast to coast, what are the trends that you’re seeing that’s happening in the condo market in general?

Ben Myers:

It’s obviously location specific. Toronto is also an established condominium location, right? People understand condominiums, they know how to buy them in pre-construction, they know how long it’s going to take, they know what to expect when they take possession and it’s been dominated by the investor purchasers, not only for selling them at occupancy, which has for the most part disappeared and most of them are long-term hold and rent investors it seems these days. The other markets, Calgary is really starting to take up condominium living. Edmonton, it’s a bit of slog but they’re starting to see some larger scale projects downtown with the elimination of the airport allowed for some higher heights that’s going to help to revitalize the downtown area, get more people in. More people come in, more retail comes in, more people on the streets and then that just creates more demand for condominiums. People want to be into a dynamic neighborhood. The fourth market that we’re in is Winnipeg and that’s in its infancy in terms of the condo market. We’ve seen some interest in downtown with Winnipeg jets coming back but again, it’s very much in its infancy but we’re looking to bring a project there that’s really going to excite people and get people to move downtown Winnipeg. Otherwise, we’re cautious about Montreal and Vancouver. Vancouver because there’s just a distance there, a high variations of entry into that market and Montreal, things haven’t been going as well there. Ottawa, again, we’re in. We’re cautious again in the Ottawa market. There seem to be a lot of players that got into the market that didn’t quite understand the dynamics of the condo market. A lot of units came on board, but again it’s one of the most stable cities because of the government. There’s not a lot of massive layoffs, there’s not a lot of massive hires but there’s still solid growth and they still have constraints in terms of the employment downtown because a lot of people don’t live in [inaudible 00:12:13] and commute to Ottawa. A lot of the jobs are concentrated downtown. There’s lots of universities downtown so there’s still decent demand for condominiums.

Andrew la Fleur:

What would you say in terms of the next 5 years, is there one market Canada that you see is having the most growth potential the next 5 years and what would that be?

Ben Myers:

In terms of the numbers it appears to still be Calgary and Edmonton. They still have very, very strong growth, they’re still getting very strong employment growth and those are the two key things. If you get immigration you get employment growth and you’re going to get demand for new housing, right? They’re putting in place the public transit to move people and that’s key. Toronto was never, I don’t want to say never go down, but Toronto is international destination. We’ll see strong demand here because this is just an area that people really want to be in and the more fondness that get downtown, the more that it gets built up and gentrified and some of the outer 416 areas is only going to drive more people downtown. Again, as you can see with the gardener closing, it’s only going to become more difficult to commute to downtown. People are not going to do it and look at gas prices. It’s just not economically feasible for you to live and commute downtown because of the time, the cost and the hassle.

Andrew la Fleur:

Right. You’ve been asked this question probably more than anybody in Canada, but I’ll ask you again. Is there a condo bubble in Toronto?

Ben Myers:

I certainly do not believe that there’s a condo bubble in Toronto. I’ve said it a million times. The definition that I’ve read and I’ve seen the most part of this is what a bubble is is rapidly increase in pricing. In the low-rise housing market in Calgary, I think it was 2006, prices went up 42% year over year. That’s a bubble. That is unsustainable growth. In the Toronto condo market we rarely had any year that the pricing went up more than about 10 or 11%. Obviously, that’s not a sustainable level of price growth in the market but it wasn’t bubble conditions. When you look back at Edmonton and Calgary where they saw 35 to 45% growth in pricing year over year, the pricing only actually came down 10%. Despite having this huge run up in pricing, it cracked it but it didn’t crash. There wasn’t people that were losing their homes because they lost their 25% down payment that they put on it. I think in a market like Toronto where pricing was only going up 7 to 9%, I don’t see how that’s going to come way, way down. I think investors in the market are for the most part capitalized. They’re buying condominium because they can’t afford that. They’re not over leveraging their house and all these things to purchase condominium that they can’t close on. I think the banks have definitely been a lot more conservative on how many mortgages they’ll allow the individual investor to get. That brings it down and again, we can’t take 30 and 40 and 45-year mortgages on these to reduce your payment to get into a positive cash flow situation. You need to have significant down payments there. I don’t see any issue with major decrease and pricing in the market.

Andrew la Fleur:

Why do you think that this condo bubble theory just never seems to go away? Why do you think these headlines … We just keep seeing this headlines in the newspapers and these comments online and talking heads from New York and other places telling us there’s a condo bubble? Why do this thing, this sentiment just never seems to go away?

Ben Myers:

I think number one is real estate is just something that people love to talk about. Everyone needs real estate. Everyone needs to live somewhere. You have some experience with real estate. It doesn’t matter who you are. I guess maybe there’s almost no people don’t have experience with real estate. 99% of the people they have experience with real estate. They drive through Toronto, they see the cranes, they see the units under construction. It’s unbelievable for them to see these many units going in. As I’ve said several times, if you had driven in North Brampton, if you had driven in Milton, if you had driven North Whitby and going back to 2002 and 2003 when we were building 35,000 low-rise housing units per year you’d have been shocked. You’re just shocked. If you just drive up there now and you’re just going through series and series of low-rise communities and guess what, those houses have three and a half, four, five people per house. When you think of we’re building only 15 to 16, 000 condominiums a year and they’re only putting in one to one and a half people on average, that’s a lot less people than what we are putting in the low-rise market. There’s an affordability crunch in this area so people are forced to live in condominiums longer and that’s just the reality of it. Before it was okay, I’ll buy one condo and then I’ll look to buy a house. That was what the condo market 10 years ago. Now it’s okay, I’m going to buy a 400 to 500 square foot condo and then I’ll buy a 700 to 800 square foot condo and then okay, maybe I’ll look to buy a low-rise if the pricing is right. If not then maybe I’ll move up to a 1,000 or 1,200 square foot unit, maybe not right at the core any longer but now maybe on the avenues. Maybe Leslieville, maybe Ossington, maybe College Street. Slightly different form of condominium but more of a neighborhood feel. Those are the kinds of trends that I see going forward. The fact that the newspapers keep concentrating on this is because they just don’t understand that phenomena. They say okay, a lot of growth, price is going up and whenever we write about a condo bubble it gets lots of hits. It bleeds, it leads. Now that there’s so many outlets, there’s so many avenues for you to get information, they have to step up and be even more sensational than they ever have before to get readership. That group of people are the people that read the newspaper the most. The people that are the most negative are the people that read the newspaper the most. They’re the people that comment on those paper most when you see the number of hits that the negative articles in comparison to comments than the negative articles get in comparison to a positive article, you’ll see that’s definitely those articles that are the most popular in generating the most interest for newspaper.

Andrew la Fleur:

If there’s not condo bubble and you’re not concerned about a condo bubble right now, theoretically speaking, what would be the warning signs that you would look for a bubble forming? What would it take, in your opinion, for there to be a significant down turn in the Toronto condo market?

Ben Myers:

I look at a number of different statistics. I look at a number of completed and unsold units that are in the market. [inaudible 00:19:22] number. How many completed and unsold units? That’s a great indication of demand in the market. Calgary, an entire Calgary CMA as of the end of February it was only 12 units. 12 completed and unsold units.

Andrew la Fleur:

12 units in a city of how many?

Ben Myers:

Geez, I don’t even know the population of Calgary. A huge sense is metropolitan area. Only 12 units. Look at Toronto, it’s down 27% at year end and even down farther as of March the number of unsold units. It’s around 1,000 unsold units.

Andrew la Fleur:

It’s trending down.

Ben Myers:

It’s trending downwards. Despite the fact that we’re seeing higher levels of completions, the number of completed and unsold units are going down. I look at all the resell indicators. What is the average days on market? It starts to get up to 40 to 45 days then that will be something that I’ll take notice of. We start to see the list, the sales rate getting down, 95 or 94%. That’s when we started to get a little bit worried about what’s happening in the market.

Andrew la Fleur:

What is it at now?

Ben Myers:

It’s usually 97, 98% on average. People are getting essentially what they’re asking for the units. I think the real estate agents have access to MLS, they look at it religiously, know what the units are selling for at that size in that building and they know it’s fairly competitive. There’s a decent amount of listings out there so you can really go 20% over what’s happening and it’s obviously stupid to go 20% below, to bring in an offer 20% below because people are just not going to accept that the market is not at the point where people would accept 20% below their value unless they set their unit price wrong. Those are the main things I look at. I don’t look at some of the things that they bring up in the newspaper like how many unsold units are in buildings under construction as an absolute number.

Andrew la Fleur:

Why is that?

Ben Myers:

Because the market is so much bigger than it ever has been. That’s what makes it interesting that we still have been trending around the thousand completed and unsold units for 10 years yet the market is twice as large as it was 10 years ago. In reality, it could probably be 2,000 units when you take it as a percentage over the entire market. Everything’s fairly healthy. We had that one spike here where we had 50,000 starts when we typically have 35,000. People just clung on to that, they see the number of units under construction at an elevated level. They say that’s above democratic demand but you have to take into consideration some of these condo projects are taking three, three and a half years to be completed because they’re 700-unit buildings. Even though one year had a spike or we have higher units under construction, they’re going to take a while to be completed and they’re not going to flood the market at any one time.

Andrew la Fleur:

Switching gears to Fortress and your company now, Fortress is also a developer that partners with a lot of developers. What Fortress project are you most excited about right now?

Ben Myers:

To be honest with you, I’m the most excited about Winnipeg and I’m going to buy a unit in the Winnipeg project myself.

Andrew la Fleur:

Tell us a little bit about this Winnipeg project coming up.

Ben Myers:

We haven’t totally finalized.

Andrew la Fleur:

What is it called?

Ben Myers:

It’s called Sky City Center. Sky City Center Winnipeg. It’s a block away from the MTS Center where the Jets play. It’s right now currently scheduled to be anywhere between 35 and 46 stories. It really depends on how the demand comes out or in the neighborhood of 300 residential condominium units we’ll have a major grocery store on the second floor. We’ll have office space in there. We’ve had a lot of interest in the office space from major corporations that are in the older buildings that want to be in a new building downtown that’ll have the common amenities. We’ll have some retail on the base. It’s right on the dedicated public transit route. It’ll be attached to their sky grid program which is essentially like the path but on second floor is the building so you don’t actually go outside in the cold weather in Winnipeg. The resell market has been all right in Winnipeg but we think we can bring Toronto investors and we have a lot of buy-in in the community in Winnipeg. They want to see something like this happen, they want to see a signature real estate project occur in that city and we have all the investors in the capital of that project also want to support the residential units in that development as well. We’re bullish what’s going to happen there. One of the reasons that I want to buy there is because there’s some major skepticism going on in Winnipeg. They just don’t feel that something as great as this can happen in their city. We’re pricing the project relatively in line with other downtown condominium projects even though this is by far better than anything that’s ever has been offered in Winnipeg. It’s similar to Maple Leaf Square. You look at what the conservatory group is selling at their project. It’s almost $100 per square foot or $150 a square foot less than what Maple Leaf Square is selling.

Andrew la Fleur:

Right across the street.

Ben Myers:

Right across the street because that is a better project. It’s mixed use, it has all the amenities, it’s close to the ACC.

Andrew la Fleur:

If you’re living in that building, Maple Leaf Square, your lifestyle is just elevated. The access to amenities and everything are elevated compared to another building across the street. Conservatoria is one example that you’ve mentioned.

Ben Myers:

Yeah. We feel that we’re going to have that same exclusivity when this building is completed. People really going to want to live in this building and they’re going to pay a premium to do it. I think pricing, it’s not going to go up Toronto, it’s not going to be 7 to 9% year over year, but I think when this building gets completed it’s going to be $50 to even $75 per square foot higher than what I paid for. There’s going to be some lead times. It’s going to take a while to build a building of this size in Winnipeg so I’m not as worried about having my down payment for a long time but the great thing is I don’t have put down 20%. It’s like we only have to put down 15%. It’s a little bit even better. The market’s been very strong in Winnipeg. It had a vacancy rate of below 2, I believe, for 12 years or 13 years. It’s pretty unbelievable. I’m just looking at one of the downtown rental projects, the brand new rental projects, it’s like 6 storeys. It’s actually a conversion of a building that was already down there and they were receiving 210 to 220 per square foot, which is not too bad for a building that zero amenities whatsoever. We think this building we’re going to have views to freaking Brandon to Minnesota and you’re going to have a major grocery within your building and you don’t have to go outside in the winter. How fantastic is that in Winnipeg to not to have to go outside and have all these retail at the phase. You’ll be able to walk to your employer without ever going outside. We’ll have a heated bus shelters if you are taking public transit to your job. Boom, right there in the heated bus shelter right onto the bus. These are type of amenities that haven’t been offered in that city that are going to be offered now so that’s why we’re pretty excited about that one.

Andrew la Fleur:

That’s great. You’ve been interviewed many times by many different media outlets over the years and different people always asking your opinion on the markets and so on. Is there one question that no one has ever asked you but that you wish someone would about the condo market or about yourself or about Fortress?

Ben Myers:

That’s an interesting one. I try to get the things that people don’t ask me out into articles that I write about. It’s just a further understanding of how the market works and I think the one that, I briefly talked about it, was the real confusion is the level of unsold supply in the market. That’s one that is often talked about and not understood. At Urbanation we would talk about unsold supply, we would talk about the units in pre-construction, under construction and buildings that were occupying and not sold out that had been registered for less than two months. It was a little bit of a need to be explained what that was and then you see some of the bears they had to ask that. Oh my god, there’s 23,000 completed and unsold condos in the market when it’s actually, like I mentioned, about 1,000 units. The breakdown was most of those units were in a pre-construction phase of development so some of these projects just launched. This launched one month ago so they’re going to have some unsold supply in there. We really need to concentrate on the units that are under construction, what’s happening there and [inaudible 00:28:14] 80 to 85% sold, the buildings that are under construction. People worry, oh well that number was fit and growing. It’s been growing because there’s more projects on the market and it’s not as big a concern because once a developer gets construction financing in place, that’s the key thing it needs to get. A lot of times his sales office was on site so he takes away his sales office, he closes down sales, by appointment only you want to go to the head office, he’ll sell you a unit at an increased price because he knows when you walk through that unit and people can touch it and feel it, they pay a premium for that unit over buying it off plans. It’s just always been the case and always will be the case. If they can afford to not sell those units until occupancy they will do it and a lot of times they’ll end up selling 10, 15% of the units during that two, two and a half or three-year construction period. A lot of developers they have been profitable at least 85, 90%, usually a lot lower our percentage sales. They’ll be fully liquidating the project. Sometimes they’ll decide, you know what, I’m going to rent this unit out. I’ll hold these as cash flow properties for myself. There’s no sense of urgency for me to sell these. If someone wants to pay $25 or $30 per square foot higher than the market for those units, then I’ll gladly sell it to them. I will get a tenant in there and they want to stay there and they want to buy it from me, fine. They’re doing that as well. Plenty of large scale developers, once they pay back their construction loan they’re just returning their money. Unless they have a specific project that they want to sell all those units for and put it in, why take the money out? Why sell those units unless you’ve got somewhere else to put the money? That’s a hard part for people to understand. They say, well if the condo market goes down all these investors are going to sell. The investors need to put that money somewhere. If you have a tenant in your unit and they’re paying you rent and you’re in a cash flow pause situation, why does it matter what’s happening in the fluctuations of the average price in the market?

The average price in the market is not an indicator of the value of your specific unit. That’s so hard for people to understand. The average can fluctuate for so many different reasons. It could be a project in Yorkville with 800-unit comes to market and a whole bunch of resells in there and that pulls the average out. We could have 800-unit project in Milton, obviously that’s not going to happen, but we have an 800-unit project in Milton with $150,000 units and they’ll all sell, that’s going to pull the average down. What happens a lot when the market goes down a bit? Listings go way down. The only projects, the only units that are being listed are people who really need to sell for whatever reason. They’re moving, they got fired, they lost their job, they got a divorce or whatever, so they’re willing to take a lower price and they’re selling in a bad market. These factors are always coming to consideration when you’re looking at things. Again, that was a very convoluted and long answer to the question, but my mind goes in many different ways.

Andrew la Fleur:

The other sides. It goes to your theme of the other side of the story. It’s another thing I recommend people check out from Ben is his articles which he calls The Other Side of the Story where he talks about some of these things and flushes out some of these ideas that we’ve been talking about here today. People want to find you, Ben. Where is the best place to find you online?

Ben Myers:

Fortressrealdevelopments.com. My Twitter is @benmyers29. I pontificate about the condo market on there, about the Blue Jays, about my dislike of soccer and any other thing that are happening with people with the same name as myself.

Andrew la Fleur:

Well, thank you Ben for your time today, I appreciate it. Hopefully we can have you again on the show soon.

Ben Myers:

Perfect. Thanks.

Andrew la Fleur:

Okay. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Ben Myers. For all the show notes again on this episode head on over to truecandos.com/ben. Once again, if you like this show, if like this podcast, if you like what you’re hearing, I just ask you, the listener, please go to iTunes and leave me a review there. Greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening and until next time. Bye for now.